From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. Effort. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. Anyway if it takes me 100 years to finish this thing one thing is for sure I will not have to worry about powering anything and everything. If you make a complete loop of 100 feet with good track joints, you'll have something like .1 ohm from the transformer to the farthest point, using the rule of thumb that most track is something like 16 AWG wire (.004 ohms per foot) and that there are two 50 foot tracks feeding the farthest point from two directions. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. If they do, follow their recommendations. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). While it is tempting to go with the biggest wire possible to guarantee excess capacity, there are drawbacks to putting in more than you need. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. no it isn't. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. Dave, the nice thing about Lionel transformers is you can run them until the bimetallic breaker pops and then you let it cool and you are back in action (after shutting a few things down)! Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains. RemembertheVeterans. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. It does run on conventional power but not great and no whistle or bell. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. What type is your old transformer? Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. It has FasTrack connectors on one end and O Gauge track pins on the other. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. And that means theyre affordable. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Thanks! For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. It can be a great secondary power supply for lighted buildings, signals, and other accessories. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. The multi-conductor wire is also available. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. How to open tamper resistant outlets, Xxcopy vs Xcopy: Command line copy utilities, Where to connect the red wire to a light switch, Brains 25 cents: The story behind the meme. It is much easier to be ready ahead of time then to have to do some changes afterwards. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. For safety reasons, the batteries were soon replaced by a 110 volt transformer. It is 5" long. Price Received. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. JavaScript is disabled. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. These can all have uses for your layout. Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. The Best Technical and Innovative Podcasts you should Listen, Essay Writing Service: The Best Solution for Busy Students, 6 The Best Alternatives for WhatsApp for Android, The Best Solar Street Light Manufacturers Across the World, Ultimate packing list while travelling with your dog. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. Classic Toy Trains 5-Year Collection 2015-2019 DVD-ROM. If you like, tell us more about yourself. But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. CW80 Transformer. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. Most power supplies will perform very well for years if used within their limits. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. Adding more freight or passenger cars [also known as rolling stock] to your set is another way to quickly expand your railroad. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. HO gauge is very popular because of its size. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. What size Lionel transformer do I need? I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct Smaller feeder wires are used to bridge the small gap from the bus to the track. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. I would check yoour connections and wire size, just to be safe. Model train power falls into one of three categories. There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered The locomotives are battery-powered and made of durable plastic. If you need a device that converts from different voltages so it can power another device, then a transformer will fulfill that role perfectly. By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. Actually it was a train show with varied trains of all different eras being run I have mostly MTH trains though and they wouldn't run because the transformer that was running wasn't powerful enough to cycle through my MTH trainsounds. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. Sign-up for email today! Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following, $12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable). Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. Mike to the forum. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. Then power every other one with one of your smaller transformers. To participate you must either login or register for an account. OTTS Founder And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. Sell Your Trains Yourself At Train Shows. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Although it will not have any impact on the performance of the wire within, choosing multiple colors of wire, and standardizing on a specific color for each function, will go a long way in making your wiring easier to install and easier to detect flaws later on. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. A rule of thumb from the elders, (I had to go to the mountain top for this one), Add 2 more watts for Spankybird's fun-filled layout! THE BASICS "O", "S", "HO". Most command systems use a constant AC power supply, and trains are controlled by impulses sent through the rails. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. This thing has more power then I will ever need. The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. Ive talked about why here. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. Never had a problem. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. If you have a starter set and have had thoughts like this, youre not alone. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). :-). Some great beginner accessories are the #12052 Fastrack Highway Signal set, which is a set of highway signals that blink as the train goes by. Yes, but the train will probably run too fast, depending on the output voltage of the transformer. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? Price Received. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. Transformers are designed to fail if a short in the secondary or control side occurs. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. This conserves the trains' power supply for their needs and makes troubleshooting much easier. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. As the train goes by, the door to the shed opens and a figure pops out, and once the train has passed the figure re-enters the building and the door shuts. They are fun to have. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. What does a Lionel transformer do? The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. It was a symbiotic relationship, the engineer designed it and the tech built it, then they both troubleshot it. If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033.

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